Mary Lou Hill Interview

May 2007

Jefferson County Historical Association

By Mike Moore

Subject: Baby Sitting at JPG

Also 1974 Madison Tornado

Mike Moore: This is Mike Moore with Mary Lou Hill at the Jefferson County Society on Wednesday the 9th of May 2007 at 1:00 pm. We are interviewing Mary Lou about her experience as a baby sitter for the employees of JPG during World War II.

Mary Lou: Now I have the year, it could have been 1944 or 1945 or 1946, those were probably the years.  The people that were involved in baby sitting, were actually my neighbor, but they were about my age probably 15 or so. Maybe some of them were a little older.  Their names were Mary Virginia Evans and her mother. I did not find out that until yesterday. She sat for Col. Hardigg. Mary Virginia sat with us in the summer during the day.  Her mother probably sat at night. I was not allowed to stay later than 11:00 pm.

Mike Moore: Was it just in the summer time?

Mary Lou: No. I was there in the winter also. Of course, I did not go during the day. I think it would be Saturday night if they had a party. Mary Virginia and her mother, Viola baby sat for Col. Hardigg. Bernice Rusk sat for a Lt. Fry. Carolyn Scott, Rosmund Scott, and Mary Margaret Scott and I believe Suzanne Peddie sat for Major Bennett. I sat for Major Sucaney, He and his wife had two children. Martha Green was another person that sat.  I don’t remember her sitting, but she might have been a tad older than us.  All these folks have passed away except Bernice and I.

Mike Moore: Bernice, is she the person from Shelbyville?

Mary Lou: The bus was based at Central Hotel. It would pick us up at 07:30 am in the morning and then bring us back at 4:00 pm unless we had other plans there. That was Monday through Friday. If we went during the weekend, then our baby sitters would pick us up.

Mike Moore:  Oh, they would drive into town and then pick you up and take you out to JPG?

Mary Lou: they would.  They would car pool, especially if it was a big party.  They had quite a few parties out there, a lot of bridge playing. There was a need for us to be there.

The scenario for the day would be we would gather at the play ground in the morning.  The children would play and we might take them for a walk around the horse shoe. Then we would go in for lunch. Then after lunch and naps we would gather and walk to the PX and that is where we would have ice cream treats. Then we would make sure to be back by four and then we would get on the bus. The whistle would blow. Did they all blow when you were there?

Mike Moore:  Yes

Mary Lou:  The whistle would blow and then taps. Not taps, but “day is done”. I did not hear it in the morning, but I heard it in the afternoon and I loved it. We were teenagers of course.  We were aware that the proving ground was an ammunition testing place.  From that information we had no idea where they were getting that ammunition, which of course was from Charlestown powder plant and other places.

But when you’re that young you just don’t put that together as such and later on when you talk about the proving ground, of course you worked there and Fred worked there and a lot of people that we know worked there.  It was such a wonderful place for us to be with our children, because they had a pool at one time, and Officers club.  We played ball and basketball and then when Chris played tennis there was tennis there. There was all these facilities there for us, so we kind of felt like that was our private playground.

We would have reunions there. 

Mike Moore; did Chris play with organized tennis or just pickup games on that tennis court out there?

Mary Lou: Actually at that time he was just starting. His dad played. Fred played as a young man. He was good.  He would invite Dave Ferguson, and others.  His brother Jefferey would play.

I was just going to say something about the farmland that was there. We knew that there were many, many farmers and their families and it was certainly upsetting to them that they would have to move. I think too now that when we talk about this, Fred’s Aunt and Uncle were there and of course they would have to move to town.  As far as selling it and getting what the land was worth.  The money was not all that important. It was just the fact that it was their home and you don’t really have to put a price on what is there for you.

I remember my parents talking about the sale of the fence that went around the proving ground. If I remember correctly, it was an astounding amount of money. To me it was the most.  I think Lodge Hardware was the provider of that fence.  Then my dad, he named what the price was quoted.  It was quite a bit of money for our little town. That (JPG) was probably a lot of income to a lot of people who did not have jobs.

So that provided Madison with money.  I am not sure if it was anything like a record, but my dad was here in business and it helped him.

Mike Moore:  what kind of business was he in?

Mary Lou:  He was in the car business.  He worked for Yunker motors for many, many  years.  They had Chryslers, Plymouths and then he had used cars of course and trucks.  Then in 1947, he bought the place on Broadway that is now the Livery Stable. That is where he had his first garage.  He had to start with Fraiser-Kaiser automobiles.  If you know anything about Fraiser-Kaiser automobiles, you know they were the ugliest automobiles I have ever seen.

Mike Moore: My family in 1947, I forget whether it was a Kaiser or a Fraiser.  I think there were some differences. They were high quality cars.

Mary Lou: They were and that was the deal. He would take that until he could get the Oldsmobile, Cadillac franchise.  That summer in 1947 I graduated from high school and that is the year he bought this dealership. 

Mike Moore: Could you tell me your parent’s names?

Mary Lou: My Mother’s name was Stella Thevenow.  She worked in Food Services at the Madison State Hospital for twenty five years.

My father was H. A. Bennett.  He was in the car business most of his life. He always told the story that he worked on top, inside and under the cars. In 1947 he bought the business and took us on a trip.  He had a Chrysler New Yorker. It just had every bell and whistle that you could imagine.  It had Mohair lined seats. We had on shorts, because it was in August. We were stuck, oh,it was just terrible. My step sister and step mother went.  That was just such an experience, because Wallasee at that time was a cabin a mile apart maybe. It is in Northern Indian.  It was named Wallasee Lake.  It was Tippicanoe and Wallasee are together. We visited that.  My sister lives in fort Wayne. We went back about four years ago and they have permanent places now.  There were places that some of the movie people own.

When we were there in 1947 we rented a cabin and we had access to the water. There was swimming. It was beautiful.  We had a row of trees in our yard.  It stormed one night.  We were in the loft.  It was really scary during the storm.  That was some of my childhood.

Mike Moore:  To go back a little, do you know the names of Fred’s aunt and Uncle, that used to live out there?

Mary Lou: Rose and George Adams.

You know of course that Fred’s grandmother lived out there?

Mike Moore:  The Linnewebers?

Mary Lou:  Yes. 

Mike Moore: Have you ever been out to that house?

Mary Lou:  I have. It was a stone house.  It had one of those what they called a Spring House.  His Aunts, four of his aunts went at the same time.  They had to clear the path for us.  They are all gone now, but they recalled their childhood for us.  That was something to record.

Mike Moore:  Was it empty?  Was there anyone living there when you visited?

Mary Lou:  No. No. It was empty.  When we went over the creek you know.  They said when it rained they couldn’t even get out of there. There were times when it rained hard they wouldn’t be able to go to school, they wouldn’t even be able to go to church.  They told very interesting stories.  To me it was like a pioneer type of house.

Mike Moore: Fred took me up there one time.  I just looked at the outer shell. It seems like it was a very long wall full of large windows.  Of course there was no glass, it was all gone. It was covered by weeds and vines.

To get back to your baby sitting days, do you remember how much they paid you?

Mary Lou: I was trying to think. Se paid by the week. In the summer time of course that was Monday through Friday. I am going to have to say that she paid me $10 dollars.  They were very generous.  When we went we could eat all of our meals there.  I did extra.  She always told me I did not had to do extra, but I did.  I washed dishes. 

If you want me to tell you a very lively and funny story about Bernice, I will.

Mike Moore:  By all means.

Mary Lou: She sat for Lt. Fry.  He and his wife entertained quite a bit. They would even go out of town.  They would go to Cincinnati.  They liked to go to the symphony. They would be gone and She would go in the next morning.  Everything was like Mrs. Fry left it. They had not cleared the table. The dishes were there. The sink was full. She would of course have to wash the dishes and take care of the children.  Bernice told me what they would pay her for I guess a day. We were laughing when she was telling me this, just when I called her.  For all of that I was paid three dollars.  We really laughed about that. 

But then too she said, I did not care for he was so good looking. I just wanted to look at him and we really laughed at that.  They just had the one child.  I just couldn’t believe that Mrs. Fry would not clean up their house, before she left, but then we said maybe she a little wine, They were young. I would never do that. I had very active children. I wanted the baby sitter to concentrate on the children, not to have to clean. Those were funny times.

Mike Moore:  I think it was interesting that you got to take the kids to the PX and get Ice Cream.  That’s neat.

Mary Lou: Yes. That happened just about everyday, unless one or two of us decided to make treats at home. Treats at home would be too hard for that many children in the yard.  There were maybe four of us or five.  We would all go to the PX.  Between us, lets see The Chicaney’s had two,  The Bennetts had two, Hardigg’s had two, We probably had about ten children all together.  Of courses we took care of our own children.  They were very good children.  We really did not have too much problems.  I thought it was a vacation to tell you the truth.  And too meeting them because they were from Dallas, the Chicaney’s were and very, very southern. Mrs. Chicaney, Veda was her name, she was very southern.  We spelled their name phonetically Schcaney.  It is probably wrong, but that is the best I can do.

Mike Moore:  Did you hear the guns going off when you were out there?

Mary Lou: Yes we did. I was thinking I was more bothered by that at home in Madison than when I was baby sitting. A lot of times our windows would shake, but out there for some reason or another,  I guess it depended on which way the wind was blowing or the atmosphere, it was sometimes very loud. But I never really, or course you get used to it.  It never bothered the children when they were taking a nap. I know some people were bothered and they really complained, but I was never really bothered.  There were some folks still calling and complaining when Fred was there.

We started talking about the Tornado of 1974:

Dr. Mitchell’s Office

We were at the Dentist’s office.  This woman came in and had two children.  She was coming in as I was going out.  I said you need to take cover.  I was looking for a basement.  They went down there to that house on Lanier, and they did not find her a long time.  She was Okay.  She was so nervous. I had Chris, Beth was at the Dentist, David.
 I told here where there might be a basement, but I am not going there. I am going in here at Mrs.. B’s. 

He did not have a basement, but he said we could stay.  Mr. Bee’s was at a little strip mall right next to the Post Office. That was a delicatessen, so I said lets just stay right here. We just walked right back and we were right inside the wall, so there was a wall here, there was a big rack of dishes.  I laid down on Chris, David laid down on one side and Beth on the other. the lights went out the first time.  David said, David had been to the car though and was running the wipers. He said Mom there is a tornado. I said I know, I want you to get out of the car we are going. Beth said Mom we can make the house. We can make the house. We went in to Mr. Bee’s.  We laid down. The lights went out once.  He had just taken out a piazza out of the big, big oven over here and Mr. B was standing next to the door, Roshack was his name, Here came the lights went out again. It started and Of course we all laid down and closed our eyes.

It truly sounded like a train for quite a while.  I said,  “Just keep your mouth closed and your eyes closed and Pray!. There were eleven of us . The only one that was hurt was the little girl that would not lay down.  She got a broken back, I think.  I don’t know where she was.  When that light went, the second time, I did not say a word.  I was listening to the kids.  The first thing we did when everything was everything was calm, I just said think God we are living. Chris said, “Mom I see the sky”. ( -whispered).  There wasn’t a brick left or anything left in that place, but the big refrigerator thing was there and that was it. It lifted the roof and plopped it down way over on the road.  When it was over, we stood up, Christopher had glass kind of on his tongue. 

I said lets be real careful, because there was a maze of wire and all that debris, but we did not know that it was all dead, because somebody downtown had shut it all off, but we did not know that though.  So we went next door  to the Post Office. The Post Office of course was just fine.  We were not allowed to go in where it was really safe, because he told us that we could stay right here. I said with all this glass, I can’t stand here with these children, I don’t know how we made it, because Mrs. B’s was no more.

Mike Moore:  know this is interesting, because I heard Fred tell of his experience at JPG with them stuffing people in the tunnel at the Proving ground and Fred sat in the car in the parking lot and watched it and kind of leaned down in the car.

Mary Lou:  He did not come home for the longest time. Deuce was in school at IU. He couldn’t get home fast enough of course, but that was not very fast.  When he came in he was so relieved to see us, because he couldn’t phone.  When we came down the hill after the tornado, I kept thinking isn’t this a miracle! Oh, Leaves and leaves were down, no big trees or anything.  A tree fell down in my backyard.  We had no lights so we got big lantern.  I felt like that ah Just like these people that lost everything. There were houses up that one was gone and the other was fine.

To have nothing, and that is what happened to this place in Greensburg, Kansas.  I can not imagine.  It was on a scale of f-5.  That is one of the worst.  I don’t know what ours was classified, because as far as I was concerned at that time, it was the worst. I had never been afraid of storms in my life.  We always had storms.  In the summer we would always go to Cincinnati, they probably had storms and probably worse than ours, but after that as soon as the sky got dark, I was ready to go in the basement.  I would call around to see where my mother was, make sure the kids got home. They were so funny, just the three of them were there.  We were very watchful after that.  To think of my childhood and young adulthood I never even thought about tornadoes. 

Mike Moore: I was just wondering if you could remember any of the children’s names that you baby sat for?

Mary Lou:  I do. The Hardigg’s had Bill Hardigg and they had another boy. And then the little boy that was left to us, his name was Dan Bennett. He was absolutely a doll. He was a little guy. His mother was too. I sat for Bill Schicaney, four and Sue Schicaney who was six months when I went there. For quite awhile I heard from the Schicaney’s and I don’t know if  Mary June, you see, the Hardigg’s both stayed here for awhile, they had more children.   The Hardigg’s were here, oh gosh, but Mrs. Hardigg, I believe they had two more children.,   then the Dan Bennett and the little Fry girl, I do remember she had allergies.  I remember Bernice had to put these little gloves on her and tie them so she would not scratch her face. She had terrible allergies.  So she (Bernice)  got the full treatment. She had only one child, but she had to clean up the house.