Interview 1
From “Voices From Monroe Township, Published by the Jefferson county Historical
society Page 40. Thanks to Jan Bonnet who conducted the interviews and Meredith Gregg who transcribed them.
Louis Munier (February 26, 1994)
How old were you when your family
sold the farm?
I was twenty-one.
Did you live out at your family farm at that time?
We moved a few years
before but we still owned it and had it rented. I was the fourth generation of Muniers to live on
the farm. It was located on Big Creek. There was a big cement bridge right by our barn that went across the creek. Between
the Shun pike and the paper mill road. Our closest neighbor was Clements Dilk. Next to him was John S.
Smith. John Smith's son and I were good friends. We were close to the same age. I had one brother and two sisters. I was
the oldest.
Had your family lived on this land for a long time?
Yes, my great grandfather
lived there and my grandfather. Then my father owned the farm -- he bought his brothers and sisters out. My father died in
1931. My mother remarried.
Do you remember how much you received for your farm?
We had two farms totalling 202 acres and I remember that we
got $7,500. My sister remembers that we got $6,500.
Did your family think this was a fair price?
They thought it was too little for all the land and the
buildings.
Did
the government give you much time to move?
Thirty days.
I have heard that they promised you would have sixty days or one hundred twenty days or something
to move. But when the actual transaction occurred, they said, "Be out within a week."
Yes, after you actually
signed that, they said you had to have everything out in thirty days. Some of them didn't, because of one neighbor there
who wouldn't even sign it. He held out and sold a lot of timber and locust posts. Then he got more than they offered after
he sold all that.
Were there people who were forced to sell?
Everybody had
to sell and some, like him, balked. His great grandfather homesteaded that farm and the deed was on a sheepskin. John S. Smith.
It seems like when his great grandfather homesteaded it, they said that he could keep it forever. Were there hard feelings,
or did people feel it was their patriotic duty to do this? A lot felt it was their patriotic duty because the government needed
it. But not everybody. We just felt we didn't get enough but we felt it was our duty to sell, so we signed it. We didn't
try to hold out. Since you were renting your land at this time, you had a place to live.
Yes, we weren't
like some of them, who had to go out and hunt a new place. Some I knew went clear up to Rush County.
Did you or any of your family work at
JPG in the constructing or in the testing area?
I was drafted into the army in April, 1941, for what they called selective
service, for a year, and then you were supposed to get out. But Pearl Harbor hit before my year was up. My stepfather worked
out there at the machine shop. When I got out of the service on a medical discharge in 1944, I worked out there on artillery
repair for about a year and a half.
Where did you go to school in Monroe Township?
I went to the Big Creek School.
It was built in the 1870s. My grandfather was the trustee of Monroe Township. Where's your family burial ground? My father
is buried at St. Patrick's cemetery. My mother is buried at Olive Branch; that's out on old 62.
Where any of your relatives buried in
the Bayless cemetery?
Some of my aunts and uncles were buried in St. Magdalene cemetery, out by the old St. Magdalene
church.
What happened to Bryantsburg and Belleview?
The proving ground
cut them in half -- took the west side and left the east side. Some of the stores were on the west side and a lot of homes
were on the west side. I knew this one fellow out at Belleview whose home was on the west side and his business --a garage
-- was on the east side. William Denny -- he sold Pontiac cars out there.
Is he the W.
L. Denny who wrote poetry.?
Yes, I think so. He had a light plant [generator] out there in his garage and then had electricity
across over to his house, so way back when nobody else had electricity, he had it. This one fellow had a grocery on the west
side. He went down to Madison and started his grocery. Bert Vayhinger. His daughter lives
up here on Wilson Avenue. Dr. Charles Denny bought a place here in North Madison after he left out there. He had a big barn
and a lot of land out land. His big house and everything was on the west side of the road, although he owned land on both
sides. That's his big house that the colonel lives in now. He built that for a hospital but it never did materialize.
I was told that at the selling of the land in the Bryantsburg-Belleview area, there was a big meeting at the Liberty Church
to try to get some of the west side of 421 left alone. I remember that they moved that church across the road. There are also
some houses out there that they moved across.
Anything you would like to say or remember about that time period or
the time before that?
My grandfather was a Trustee for three terms. He built that third Big Creek School in the 1870s.
Can
you tell me about your life as a boy out there?
This Smith boy and I were good friends because he was about my age. We got to walk to school --that
was about a mile to school. They built that new bridge there by our farm in 1924 and I can remember they had these little
gasoline-fired mixers to mix all that cement for the bridge. This contractor wanted to pour all that big arch in one day,
so they were finishing up at night with lanterns.
How did you spend your days as a young man?
We helped on the farm ever since I can remember. My father died when I was twelve, so we had to
help farm. We had a team of horses and a team of mules and planted corn and all that.
What did you do after your work was
done?
I
don't know. I'd read. Down a little below us in summer they had a swimming hole where everybody gathered to swim.
That was between where I lived and Big Creek School. There was a church on our farm -- the Big Creek Methodist Church. There
was a cemetery there too. Was it a church that your family owned
or was it just sitting on your land?
We didn't own it. It just came off of our farm originally.
Did a lot of
people in the community go to this church?
Some of them went to Sunday school there. A few times they had church, but most of the time they
just had Sunday school. My folks were Catholic and belonged to the St. Magdelane Catholic Church.
Were there social events at St.
Magdelene's?
It
was about six miles from where we lived, so we didn't go if there were. Marble Corner was about three miles and they had
a general store there. We'd go out there to the store. I guess I'm a little ahead of my story. They had a store down
at Big Creek close to the school, but that burned around 1930. So there was no store there until a lot later. Albert Anders
had that store when it burned. He moved to Middle Fork then and bought a store at Middle Fork. There was a post office in
that store a little before 1900 -- the Big Creek post office.
I have been told that many churches had socials.
The school would have several socials, like at Christmas the children would have a Christmas
program.
Do you remember any of the Christmas programs you participated in?
I mostly just had a poem or some such.
When you were in school, was the enrollment
pretty consistent?
Well,
some would move and some new ones would come in. They had what they called the Marble Valley School -- it burned. So part
of the children came to Big Creek and some to Oak Dale. So we had two teachers there in that one-room school then. Maybe in
the late 20s. Until they got that other school built. And teachers think they have a rough time now. I
heard at one time -- that was before I went there -- that they had 45 students in that one-room school. Eight grades. That
was around 1900. 1 started around 1925.
Is there anything else you remember about the time period of the late 30s or early 40s?
About
1930 they had a stone quarry there on our farm and built a new road out north. It was actually Ripley County where they built
it -- from the Ripley County line out to Marble Corner Store. About 1920 they built a pike there, a gravel road. From the
road that went to Marble Corner they also built from there back to Swartz School.
I have heard about the graders they used on the
roads. The county had a big grader -- a big caterpillar tractor that had 60 on the side of it.
Have you ever heard any stories
about Morgan's Raid?
My aunt was small then. I forget offhand what year she was born. She could remember that Morgan's
run. They stopped there and they had to feed them some and they took two horses from my grandfather. Left some old horses
and took two of my grandfather's horses. I heard stories that some would hide their horses way back on the farm. Over
about a quarter of a mile from where we lived they captured three of Morgan's men. They had what they called the Fighting
Baxters -- there were six Baxter boys in the Civil War and all of them came back. One of them was a lieutenant; he helped
capture these three Morgan's men. There was a cave and a spring down below the road and they were down there getting a
drink. Then around 1930 this Chancy Cardinal started about putting up some markers out there. He lived out between where I
lived and Dupont. He was trying to get a highway up through there, so he was trying to get a highway from Brownstown to East
Enterprise. He went around taking up a collection to put up these markers. But then he got the Jefferson County Historical
Society to help. The markers said the Jefferson County Historical Society on the bottom. There was also a marker put up where
they captured those three. Over at Dupont by the railroad track there was a smoke house -- I think it was a brick building
-- and they took a lot of hams out of that smoke house. They when they got to Big Creek the hams were too heavy so they just
tossed them over in the creek. I can show you a picture. Here's what our place looked like from the back. Here's the
barn roof. The road went in between the house and the barn. The bridge was right here by our barn. Before
that it bordered the creek. This is a closeup view of the front of the house. This part back here is stone and there's
little bit of the stone walls still there. This part here is all gone. There was a big chimney here and it's gone. I think
this was all covered with weather boarding -- it's all gone. And all these other buildings
are gone. That was the garden right there. You can see three people right there. Chickens over here. We grew corn and wheat.
We didn't grow any tobacco. A few grew tobacco, but we didn't. That building is the chicken house and we called this
one the wagon shed -- I guess way from back they kept their spring wagons in there. This was a kind of a shed on there where
my dad kept the car. This is a granary -- we kept corn and wheat upstairs. It was open. This is the smokshouse here next to
the house. In the back was the summer kitchen -- wood slats on the side of that. Here's a picture Mike Moore took of me
out there with what's left. Here's what it looked like in 56 -- the walls. In 86 the trees have grown up in there.
Then this is 92. Here's a picture of the bridge -- you see it had that big arch. It's still standing but they won't
let any vehicles go across it now. That was right by the barn. There are some stone bridges out there too -- some of them
have two arches, some have three arches. This is Big Creek School, where I went to school. They all look similar -- Oak Dale
School, Big Creek Creek School.
Yes, the county built them about the same. Some said they thought Big Creek School was a little bigger because there
were more pupils there. There's the coal shed. I was talking to Risk Bentley yesterday and he was saying that it was considered
a privilege to go out to the coal shed to get the coal for the stove. Get a little time out [laughter]. The bigger boys would
get to go out and get the coal and fire up the stove. Did the lucky ones get to sit near the stove on a cold winter day? Did
you ever get to? I was kind of in the back later. When I was smaller I was close to the stove. Some of the seats were smaller
in front and in the back it was bigger. There's some of the stone from that old church. See how these stones right on
the corner were faced. Then there was plaster over these. There's a view of the church and here's a picture of what's
left. Big Creek Church. Now you can hardly walk up there because of the trees. Last October Mike
called and wanted to know if I'd like to go out there where I lived and to the Big
Creek Church, The colonel wanted to go. So we went. The Colonel enjoyed it, and so did I. There's
the stone where they captured the Morgan's raiders. "Three of General John Morgan's troopers going east were
captured here Sunday, July 12, 1863. Jefferson County Historical Society." They didn't put this on at first, about
who captured them. I think one of the Baxters got that put on there. "George W. Baxter, second lieutenant, and John C.
Mayer, first lieutenant, Company M, Second Indiana Cavalry." It's still out there. Mary Ellen's uncle Charlie
lived close to Oak Dale School and had a tile silo. It's still there.
I've heard talk of that. Is there more than one
silo out there? This is the only one I know of.
The Joneses. But there may be some others. The silo was tile and it's
the only thing left there. You can see it from the road in the winter when the leaves are off. Or you could a few years ago.
A friend of mine from Alaska was down here when the Oak Dale School got on the National Register. He sent me these pictures,
I was over there close to the school. That's George Bayless. This is Alta Harrell, who's a teacher. There's Frances
Yancey and the Colonel.
Did your friend go to the Oak Dale School?
No, he went to Big Creek School, where
I went. His father was the one who had the store at Big Creek. He comes down from Alaska every summer and he just happened
to be here -then. Kenneth Andress. October 23, 1993. That same day they had a cemetery tour, and he went on that too, Here's
a picture that shows Marble Corner Store. This big building. Here's the porch with the gas pump there. That was Ripley
County -- Marble Corner. We went out there to the general store.
Is this the one that was built after the one that was burned?
No, it was out there at the same
time. They were about three and half miles apart. They didn't build any store there until a little before the proving
ground took that up. Joe Stevenson started a store there in Big Creek. There's Oak Dale School. Oak Dale doesn't have this bell out there now. This is a
picture of Oak Dale when it had the bell on it. I don't know what happened to the bell. That's what left out at St.
Magdelene's, where the cemetery was. This cross. This is out at our place again.
Mike Moore took a picture
of this fence post and said, "Well, that's a good fence post to last fifty years." That's the road there
by our house that's all grown up. That's the bridge that you can't drive across now. There was a footbridge there
before they built this bridge. This is an end view that shows all the steel they had in there. Some shells hit the side of
it and it's cracked. I think it would stand cars going across. This shows it right after it was built. That shows the
cave where they captured the men during Morgan's Raid. That was our wood shed. See: the road went between the house and
the wood shed. There's my father there splitting wood. There are my grandmother's ducks. This tells about Big Creek's
paper mill George Miller had it in the paper. It was down there close to Big Creek School.
That's why they named that the Paper Mill Road. There was a dam across the creek, and the mill ran by water power. I heard
my father say that one time they had to lower that dam some because we lived up the creek about three fourths of a mile and
it affected the creek where we lived. People had to ford the creek before they built the bridge. There's the teacher at
Big Creek School in 1930. Raymond Rose. He just died a few months ago. My sisters are there. That's my sister Catherine
in the front row right here. My other sister is here, Elizabeth. That's my grandfather. I'm named for him.
You had a very big place. It was
a beautiful place.
Yes, it was really nice. You mentioned Risk Bentley. He said he always thought that was the prettiest place. They
lived kind of close there, on Shun Pike. His father carried our mail on the rural route for several years. Charlie Bentley.
This is the insurance policy that my grandfather had. The Jefferson County [scrambled] Mutual Fire Insurance Company, Stony Point, Jefferson County, Indiana. [There was a post office at Stony Point at one time.] Doesn't sound
like it was connected with any insurance in Madison. Stony Point was where their office was. Over here it shows who was president
of the company: D. P. Monroe, President, and Thomas H. Waddington was secretary. Vice President was John R. Richey, and Charles
Hulman was treasurer. Those four were also directors and they had some other directors.
Fires were more common back then.
Yes, they didn't
have any way to fight them much, either. The policy was for two hundred dollars on a dwelling. Then they added four hundred.
Then there was seventy-five dollars on the household furniture and the barn was three hundred, then they added two hundred
more. Then twenty-five dollars on grain and fifty dollars on hay and two hundred dollars on livestock and fifty dollars on
machinery. That wasn't much. I've got some postmarks from out in the proving ground. I've got Fulkner -- that
was also Marble Valley, and there's St. Magdelene -- that's where the church was. That was New Marion, right on the
edge of the proving ground. This was Bryantsburg -- there was a post office there. That's just
a rural route stamp. 1908. After they had the rural route, they got that stamp: Rural Route, Madison. There was Holton;
that was right up on the north edge of the proving ground. It's still there. This was Evans Rural Station that was supposed
to have been close to Stony Point. Two cent stamps to mail a letter. North Madison, 1915. I saved this. This was my uncle
that married my father's sister. He was the great grandfather of Steve Horton, Madison fire chief. He was in the timber
business. He lived at Bryantsburg for quite a while. They had different kinds of two cent stamps. Some of them were made on
the envelope, see. Like already stamped envelopes. There was Dupont in 1907. Big Creek, 1899. This one even has the rural
route number.
